DRM an why I think it sucks.
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 14:56:46
You can still customize and modify the script to your liking, even for the protected parts. It may require the developer to add hooks, but that takes 5 seconds.
That's not customising or modifying the script at all. That's using a hook to modify functionality. What if the hook doesn't exist? What if I wanted to correct some grammer mistakes, or simply change the wording and functionality entirely.
I've bought scripts which hardly do what I want, purely because I want to rip a certain part of the UI, or understand how it does a single thing.
What people seem to be getting wrong is that SE is not DRM. It does not protect your scripts effectively. I added 8 characters to a script with SE, and I assume that would get you nicely started with cleaning the script up. 
Someone needs to provide real DRM, which will both work - and not be a cancer to the customers.
Edited and not used as a hatelist by Phoenix
By<CODE BLUE>at 13th of January 2017 16:30:17
Bullying? I'd hardly call giving someone advice bullying. In fact if I recall I even complimented the script, I just gave him advice. So if I get this correctly you ban people for customising there scripts that they purchased with there money. You and your logic is so stupid that I fail to make sense of why you see DRM as fit for garrys mod.
Nice twisted logic there, we don't ban you for customizing, do what the fuck you want with the scripts. We ban you for fucking with our systems. Go and ask the developer of the script instead if you want to customize the protected parts.
Also you mentioned I bragged about replacing RunString with print when this was completely not the case, the reason the post was made was because I found it so incredibly funny that you charge people to use your service when all it is is that, as I already said all it takes is a person with a functioning brain to bypass scriptenforcer.
You're wrong, but ok. I guess you missed my joke. I can see you've never actually checked what you're talking about.
I will shittalk scriptenforcer any day because its terrible and should be called shitenforcer as all it enforces is a shit user experience. But as for shit talking individuals, can you name someone I shit talked? I think my statement was backed by facts earlier in this discussion and is not considered "Shit talk".
Fine, shittalk all you want, but at least make sure you're not spreading false information like luna was.
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 17:08:40
Nice twisted logic there, we don't ban you for customizing, do what the fuck you want with the scripts. We ban you for fucking with our systems.
You also ban for not fucking with your systems. Or not. Who knows. Noone actually checks if you've even used the systems
Bydrizzy.vipat 13th of January 2017 16:42:22What people seem to be getting wrong is that SE isnotDRM. It does not protect your scripts effectively.I added 8 characters to a script with SE, and I assume that would get you nicely started with cleaning the script up.
You really think that you can print it, wow. Gee, why didn't we ever have measures for that. Oh wait. We do. Stop wasting your time.
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 17:18:08
You really think that you can print it, wow. Gee, why didn't we ever have measures for that. Oh wait. We do. Stop wasting your time.
Nice cover, you really actually don't have measures for it.
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 17:08:40
Nice twisted logic there, we don't ban you for customizing, do what the fuck you want with the scripts. We ban you for fucking with our systems. Go and ask the developer of the script instead if you want to customize the protected parts.
No, to customise scripts I mean to edit the code. And we cannot do this if we are not allowed to "print" what you web server sends so we can edit the code in the first place, you really cannot expect devs to add every possible hook to there addon to change functionality, what about deep internal stuff. You post contradicts itself. "You can modify what you want but if you try to modify it we ban you".
Fine, shittalk all you want, but at least make sure you're not spreading false information like luna was.
Why are you bringing up Luna? Was this not about us, not someone else? Seems like your desperate for to respond now.
By<CODE BLUE>at 13th of January 2017 17:29:14
Nice cover, you really actually don't have measures for it.
Ok, I guess this argument is over.
No, to customise scripts I mean to edit the code. And we cannot do this if we are not allowed to "print" what you web server sends so we can edit the code in the first place, you really cannot expect devs to add every possible hook to there addon to change functionality, what about deep internal stuff. You post contradicts itself. "You can modify what you want but if you try to modify it we ban you".
Wrong! I said you can modify whatever you want, but if you want to modify the protected parts you need to contact the developer, perhaps you misunderstood. I added hooks inside my gamemode that covers everything that was requested, what's the problem? I said this before too, looks like we're going full circle.
By<CODE BLUE>at 13th of January 2017 17:29:14
Nice cover, you really actually don't have measures for it.
no, you really can't print the Lua he RunStrings!
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 17:34:50
Ok, I guess this argument is over.Wrong! I said you can modify whatever you want, but if you want to modify the protected parts you need to contact the developer, perhaps you misunderstood. I added hooks inside my gamemode that covers everything that was requested, what's the problem? I said this before too, looks like we're going full circle.
No, as my point stands, you cannot expect every single developer to add every single option of customizability the users would want. Just because you did it for your gamemode does not mean you can expect everyone else to do it.
By<CODE BLUE>at 13th of January 2017 18:18:11
No, as my point stands, you cannot expect every single developer to add every single option of customizability the users would want. Just because you did it for your gamemode does not mean you can expect everyone else to do it.
Uhm no. If you add hooks, and the ability to override, you don't have to add every option of customization, the customer can do it themselves, or at least be advised on how it's possible. I'm giving you viable ways to work around the issue here, it doesn't take long at all. But, it's up to the developer.
ByPhoenixf129 @GSat 13th of January 2017 18:24:15
Uhm no. If you add hooks, and the ability to override, you don't have to add every option of customization, the customer can do it themselves, or at least be advised on how it's possible. I'm giving you viable ways to work around the issue here, it doesn't take long at all. But, it's up to the developer.
Lets all add hooks to every single one of our functions and make all our local variable global! YAY!
REDACTED
I think another good argument why addons shouldn't have DRM is because I like to learn from looking through the code of the addons which I bought. Due to the DRM the developer has to give me a certain amount of options to play with, while I maybe want to try something else.
This thread is still active? Thought it would be dead by now. There's way too many arguments and stupid fucking comments on this thread that I'm not going to bother replying to them all; would just be a waste of my time.
DRM is not supposed to be in the favor of the consumer, it's in the favor of the producer. Regardless, you know for a fact that the developer you bought that script from, worked their ass off to create something for you to purchase and use on your server or personally. So they don't want that work being handed out by some script kiddy/leaker, who by the way - thinks in practically the same way you may feel about DRM/SE: "GMod scripts should be (DRM) free! It's not like the developer spent any time on making this or deserves any contribution from creating it."
ScriptEnforcer and the way it handles the DRM for the script is in the eye of the beholder (developer). There are plenty of ways that developers can utilize the DRM in such a way to allow you to modify the scripts code to your liking and still protect them from theft. Some scripts using ScriptEnforcer have literally 40 or less lines of code that shouldn't be modified in the first place.
I saw another comment saying that developers could "inject" malicious code into the server because it's streamed to the server, you're reaching extremely far out; in-fact too far out. You've got to be kidding me. If a developer streams malicious code to a server and word got out, that developer would be banned from ScriptEnforcer immediately. Same rules apply on ScriptEnforcer as they do on ScriptFodder.
Also, if thre ar gramatical erors in the cod, clientsid cod whc cuntains most gramaticl erors isnt nd cnt be sent from scrptenfercer. Hop off.
If you really want to learn how to code, go take a nice look at all of the resources available: The GMod Wiki, lua.org, Khan Academy, numerous other resources that I don't want to list. And, if you really dislike DRM that much, don't buy scripts that utilize it. Most of them have massive ass text or an image saying the script uses ScriptEnforcer.
If your only excuses that DRM is bad are "it doesn't allow me to learn", "it doesn't allow me to modify the code", or "developers could do malicious things to your server", you're wrong.
ByZephruzat 13th of January 2017 19:32:03
This thread is still active? Thought it would be dead by now.There's way too many arguments and stupid fucking comments on this thread that I'm not going to bother replying to them all; would just be a waste of my time.DRM is not supposed to be in the favor of the consumer, it's in the favor of the producer. Regardless, you know for a fact that the developer you bought that script from, worked their ass off to create something for you to purchase and use on your server or personally. So they don't want that work being handed out by some script kiddy/leaker, who by the way - thinks in practically the same way you may feel about DRM/SE: "GMod scripts should be (DRM) free! It's not like the developer spent any time on making this or deserves any contribution from creating it."ScriptEnforcer and the way it handles the DRM for the script is in the eye of the beholder (developer). There are plenty of ways that developers can utilize the DRM in such a way to allow you to modify the scripts code to your liking and still protect them from theft. Some scripts using ScriptEnforcer have literally 40 or less lines of code that shouldn't be modified in the first place.I saw another comment saying that developers could "inject" malicious code into the server because it's streamed to the server, you're reaching extremely far out; in-fact too far out. You've got to be kidding me. If a developer streams malicious code to a server and word got out, that developer would be banned from ScriptEnforcer immediately. Same rules apply on ScriptEnforcer as they do on ScriptFodder.Also, if thre ar gramatical erors in the cod, clientsid cod whc cuntains most gramaticl erors isnt nd cnt be sent from scrptenfercer. Hop off.If you really want to learn how to code, go take a nice look at all of the resources available: The GMod Wiki, lua.org, Khan Academy, numerous other resources that I don't want to list. And, if you really dislike DRM that much, don't buy scripts that utilize it. Most of them have massive ass text or an image saying the script uses ScriptEnforcer.If your only excuses that DRM is bad are "it doesn't allow me to learn", "it doesn't allow me to modify the code", or "developers could do malicious things to your server", you're wrong.
You literally just focused on the easiest points to argue
Bydrizzy.vipat 13th of January 2017 19:38:43
You literally just focused on the easiest points to argue
I addressed 3 of the larger arguments? One of which were Blue's original post: Restricted creativity. The fact you said the 3 largest arguments were the easiest "points", shows how this thread is honestly "point"-less.
I'm not pushing hate towards any of you guys who dislike DRM. To each his own. I'm just addressing arguments that are practically invalid.
If you'd like me to elaborate on "cracking" the DRM, personally - I think it's stupid. If you plan on cracking the DRM for personal use, then don't mention that you bypassed it, that is if you actually succeeded. If you plan on cracking it for malicious use such as leaking, then obviously you have bad intents and clearly have a point to argue the existence of DRM on scripts. Point is, unless you're a fucking leaker, there's no reason to go flaunting around how you "cracked" the DRM submission code.
I saw another comment saying that developers could "inject" malicious code into the server because it's streamed to the server, you're reaching extremely far out; in-fact too far out. You've got to be kidding me. If a developer streams malicious code to a server and word got out, that developer would be banned from ScriptEnforcer immediately. Same rules apply on ScriptEnforcer as they do on ScriptFodder.
You need to catch him for banning him. All backdoor are not easy to find.
Imagine a part of code that create infinite loop with laggy instruction but completly invisble.
Like this :
This is a stupid function that can make any server lag/crash randomly after restarting. It's completly invisible and can destroy any server's community.
Most of content creator are working for server or have their own. Why content creator are using DRM? To force other people to buy their script and don't use leak. So it's for money (I don't blame them for that) So now, why should i trust them? What is the best way to earn more money for a server? By having the least competition and therefore the most players.
Someone malicious that seem friendly can use this kind of thing without ever getting caught.
It may be a bit far-fetched story but this can happen. All I want to say is that using DRM Script for the customer can be really dangerous from a security point of view.
ByZephruzat 13th of January 2017 19:53:13
If you'd like me to elaborate on "cracking" the DRM, personally - I think it's stupid. If you plan on cracking the DRM for personal use, then don't mention that you bypassed it, that is if you actually succeeded. If you plan on cracking it for malicious use such as leaking, then obviously you have bad intents and clearly have a point to argue the existence of DRM on scripts. Point is, unless you're a fucking leaker, there's no reason to go flaunting around how you "cracked" the DRM submission code.
I'm not flaunting - I'm simply providing a proof-of-concept to show how bad SE is at doing it's job. Thus making the downfalls not-worthy.
I know I already stated this, but I want to reiterate this.
I don't like DRM, and I have no intentions of really using it. I can see that it has its uses, and I can also see where it can be done poorly. The only DRM I can really agree with is Freeman or ARitz, whom were unobtrusive and had the added benefit of auto updates.
If you all remember El Gringo. He had a DRM system, and the way I caught him in the act is I found out what was BEHIND said DRM before hand. When I called him out on it, he conveniently hid a file or two from me.
We're not perfect, and I'm sure there's a few malicious DRMs around, but if a serious report is made, we investigate.
My main point I suppose is that DRMs can be done right, but only when they're as non-intrusive as possible.
Bydrizzy.vipat 13th of January 2017 20:27:26
I'm not flaunting - I'm simply providing a proof-of-concept to show how bad SE is at doing it's job. Thus making the downfalls not-worthy.
Yeah, I could see why you think that it would work, because you can't try it. It doesn't work.
ByPhoenixf129at 13th of January 2017 20:58:08
Yeah, I could see why you think that it would work, because you can't try it. It doesn't work.
ScriptEnforcer does not work.